Thank God for Atheists
Posted by Colin on 25 Jun 2007 at 08:37 pm | Category: General
I never thought I’d ever think that, But I really do thank God for them. Let me explain.
A few years ago, at a ministers regional get together, the speaker challenged us by asking, ‘How many non Christian friends do you have?’ I was stunned to realise I had none, not one, zilch, zero. It’s not that I’m an anti social character who finds it hard to engage and make friends, I find it easy. But when you are a busy pastor, with a close family and demanding flock, you just don’t make or retain many friends who are Christians let alone, non Christians. Becoming so wrapped up in the church and all things churchy…well it doesn’t just happen!
So, now that challenge had gone out, the Holy Spirit had spoken to me about my (non) circle of friends, especially those who don’t go to church. Little did I know (God has an amazing sense of humour), not only was I to make some good friends, even some non Christian friends, but some hostile atheist ones as well…..and I enjoy my friendship with them (I’m not sure they would return the compliment though).
Joining the VFR bikers site has to rank as one of the best decisions I ever made. In the winter of 2005, I wanted to meet up with others who had a passion for motorbikes and all things riding, so I searched the mighty world wide web, and happened upon the site. Being a little apprehensive at first (my first foray outside the zone of church comfort in over 30 years), I was surprised at the warmth of the welcome I got, well from most of them. That has now grown into a real friendship, some of them I’ve never met, some from the other side of the world, but have been privileged to share in their joys and sorrows, as well as express some of my own.
But why should I single out the atheists for special mention of thanks? When I call them atheists, this is not a derogatory term, far from it. they would be proud to be associated as such. The ones I refer to are not the non believer who would just use the term as the nearest thing to describe their position, neither would I be referring to the lapsed Catholic/Anglican, who has just fallen out with their church, or the church in general. No, I mean the card carrying, flag waving, militant variety. The one who is well read on the subject, who would belong to a movement espousing the virtues of their particular belief system.
For those I truly thank God for! ‘But why?’ you may ask, and rightly so.
Firstly; I am a pastor of a very small congregation, engaged in social outreach programmes amongst the most disadvantaged and marginalised in the community. Situated right in the middle of the 3rd. most deprived borough in England and Wales, my challenges lay in meeting the needs of the most undeserving. In my daily routine and rewarding church work, I am never stretched theologically (or even intellectually). Being an avid reader I like to read technical publications, but have no real outlet for my learning. For two years now, I have been stretched by my atheist friends, who have probed and harried, questioned and criticised my belief system. They have forced me to answer questions I would never have considered, researched stuff I would not normally look for. I can thank God, that they have strengthened not only my faith but sharpened my mind as well.
Secondly; Whilst it is only right that we read theology books, as Christians we can ignore books written by leading atheists of the day. When we are so wrapped up in ‘the church’, we are ignorant as to what these people are writing about us. There are many Christians who are frightened or intimidated by the likes of Richard Dawkins and his ilk. For my part I would not have read much of his stuff with the intensity as I have if it were not for my atheist friends. Reading his works and numerous publications via the secular societies of Britain and America, I have gleaned so much with regard to atheist thinking. It is absolutely fascinating to read what they think about us, even if their information is so outdated (they’re still pre modernist and haven’t even reached modernity, let alone post modernity) If I didn’t know it before, I certainly do now, why I am a Christian and not an atheist!
Thirdly: The church can be a great place to be, but sometimes it can be so self serving and full of itself, that it does not truly reflect the God is serves. Let’s face it with our miraid of denominations, political machinations, and ‘other worldly’ attitude we have not done ourselves any favours. Atheist are good at pointing out our faults and failures, and (cutting through the hyperbole) we would do well to listen. They can make good sense because they will articulate what the ordinary non atheist, non church goer would think, but not ask for fear of being antireligious or causing offence.
I certainly approach my work as a Pastor with more insight and understanding than before. I would rather be criticized and brought to account, so that I may learn and adjust rather than dismiss those who struggle to understand what it’s all about.
I also now understand my own journey from atheism to faith in God. The man I admired the most, my dad, was an atheist, so it was only natural that I too would embrace his belief system (there was no God in our house!). However, during my discussions with my atheist friends I find that they split into various camps. Just like me and my dad, we both had our reasons for rejecting God, but they were different. For my dad, it was the behaviour of the Christian church during the centuries, his argument was that ‘All religion does is start wars’ I have heard this one many times from members of the site, to them it’s the atrocities committed in the name of God that seals His fate to non existence! I suppose it could have been because of all the things he had witnessed during his service in the 2nd. World war. He too would prattle on about the Crusades and other events even though he (and most atheists) have very little knowledge of their true history. In fact, and my dad would not have known this when his atheism was formed, far more people had been slaughtered (between 80 – 100 million) through atheistic ideologies by Stalin and Mao during merely 60 brutal years, than had ever succumbed to religious maltreatment in two thousand years!
Whilst I shared my dad’s disdain for religion (in particular Christianity), for me it was the delusional. Marx’s ‘Opium of the people’, we were now in a more enlightened era, one where we understood the workings of our planet, nature and in particular the new frontiers of experiences of the mind. It could have been that we were the generation of ‘psychodelia’, fuelled by the heady mix of drugs and rock & Roll. Religion, in particular Christianity had nothing to offer to this bright new world, there were new ‘gods’ to worship now. It was only when I found this stuff transient and unfulfilling, the scientific arguments for atheism unconvincing (now more than ever), that I and many of my generation searched for our ‘spiritual’ dimension .
Without my atheist friends, I wouldn’t have had cause to examine and re examine what I have. Without them I would not now be the Christian I am, or am becoming, so for that I thank God for atheists.!
ПодаръциСувенири
4 Responses to “Thank God for Atheists”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
As a devout atheist I’m sure we’d reach different conclusions, but the debate is important, as well as being intellectually stimulating, and, dare i say it, fun as well?
It’s always fascinated me how this debate seems to reinforce the beliefs of both sides!
Thanks, Ed.
I cannot agree with you more that the debates should be intellectually stimulating, especially if we learn more about where the other is coming from. And yes I too think it can be fun, I’m glad you say that, because humour is one of the things I have found lacking with most of my atheist friends.
Have you heard the one about the atheist and ther Grizzly bear?
Staying with a friend in Western Canada, a certain atheist went out one spring morning for a stroll in the forest. Enjoying the spring air, the scent of the flowers just coming into bloom, his tranquil walk was interrupted by a noise behind him. Turning around he saw an 8′ Grizzly charging him. He ran as fast as he could to escape the ensuing creature, only to notice over his shoulder that it was gaining on him.
Trying to quicken his pace, he stumbled and fell and in a second the creature stood erect over him ready to pounce. ‘Oh God, help’. cried the atheist. Just then a bright light appeared and time stood still. Out of the light a voice said, ‘So, now you are going to die, you call on me for help. most of your life you’ve not only rejected my existence, but persuaded others also’ Boomed God, ‘Now, do you believe, Now do you want to become a Christian?’.
The atheist thought for a moment and said, ‘No!, but I would like you to make the bear one’. ‘As you wish’ said God, and immediatley the light went and time returned.
From his position on the ground the atheist noticed the bear seemed no longer aggressive, it had a tranquil look on its face. It lowered its huge arms, and clasped its massive paws together and said, ‘Dear Lord, thank you for this food’.
My progress towards the views that I now hold seems to have been a long one. I have seen those around me who certainly don’t beleive in God and I have seen those that certainly have a strong faith and belief. I seem to have met many more that would say they have a strong faith, but who I think do not. This latter group don’t like their beliefs to be questioned and if this happens they become defensive or even offended, but don’t answer the question.
This last group, I think, are afraid not to be seen to be a Christians but, since they have never questioned or analysed what that really means, they are just going through the motions and dont really have a faith at all.
My position, from a very early age, was that a God is a human need and so, if he did not exist, we would invent him. I went on to see all the harm that has been done over the years in the name of religion(s) and for a long time beleived that there could be no god if his representatives could do such terrible things. I remember being particularly struck by the impressiveness of Winchester Cathedral and realising what it must have cost to build (this was at age of about 14 or 15 and I was already taking an interest in building engineering, which became my career), and this, I thought, at a time when people would have starved all around it.
I have a very science based education and, perhaps because of that, a need for proof. To me though certsin things about the way the universe and this planet were formed and developed are fact. Science doesn’t know everything by a long way but some things it does.
All in all I take as fact many things, and have views on other things, that would be seen by many to be “opposed” to Christanity or the existence of God. Oddly though, in more recent years, I do not see them the same way. I think that science and religion can seem completely opposed but that, with a little re-interpretation, actually they are not.
I think that there is one big “problem” that is the same for both faith and science. The human brain cannot understand a concept that gives both an issue - that of infinity. We can describe infinity, and we can do maths on it but we cannot have a picture in our minds of what it might look like. So, in this way, the schoolboy questions “but whats outside space?” and “but what was before God?” have the same basic “problem” in answering.
As an example of my thinking, I do beleive that the world was created by an “event” (big bang?) hundreds of millions of years ago and proceeded to develop by a process of chance and evolution to where we are now. We, humans, are just a tiny insignificant part in that timescale. I do not however feel that this, if completely correct, denies the existence of God, it just needs a bit of re-interpretation of things.
I was told a story by someone whose beliefs I do not agree with but do admire and respect-
There was once a man who went to God and said “the real source of your power is that you can create life, if I could create life then I would be as powerful as you so that is what I will learn to do”. God said, “I agree, if you can create life then I will accept that you are as powerful as me”.
Many years later the man went to God again and said “I have mastered it, I can create life” and of course God asked for a demonstration. The man knelt down and scooped up a handfull of dust from the ground saying “from this I will make life”.
“Ahh” said God “I cannot allow you to cheat, that would be easy, you must use you own materials!”
So - am I a Christian? - no. Am I an atheist? - I have no idea.
Hi Andy, many thanks for your post. Thanks for expressing your view with grace and honesty. You appear to be writing as someone with a switched on brain and an open mind.
There are many people who are scientists or have a sceintific perspective and also very committed Christians, as well as atheists who have no scientific perspective at all. So it isn’t science that is the deciding factor when it comes to have or not having a belief in God. I am fortunate in that I have an interest and degree of competancy in things scientific, so I will approach even my faith with a certain logic.
I believe you are right in that there is more of a convergence today in science and religion, the natural and the supernatural. Prof.Alister McGrath in his book, ‘the decline of unbelief’, he explores this theme well. With the Christian church, there is an upsurge in what we call ‘Hermaneutics’, that means an holistic approach to the interpretation of the Bible.
Also science, in particular Physics, is leaning more and more on ‘Theoretical Physics’, making them (As Brains put’s it) more Metaphysicists, than applied physicists.
What I am saying it’s a whole new world of exploration, especially for us Christians.
You seem to be focusing on the Cosmological aspect of science, in particularly the origin of things. For centuries Christians (as well as Jews and Muslims) have always held that creation was a single event. Ex Nhilho.
It’s only in recent years, with Hubble’s discovery of an expanding Universe (Redshift) and Hawkins/Penrose, working Einstien’s theories into the ’singularity’ we know as ‘The Big Bang’, that science has caught up with religion.
One of the things physicists struggle with is, as you put it, ‘Infinity’. William Craig in his presentation of the ‘Kalam Argument’, makes a strong case for ‘Potential infinity’, ie. a first cause, he then goes on to explain how this ‘First Cause’, was purposeful and planned. Also that this first cause must have existed outside known time and space..ie. not the natural but a ’supernatural’ existence. In the book of Hebrews in the Bible we read these words; ‘By faith we understand that the Universe was formed at God’s command, so that which is seen (visible) was not made out of what was visible (seen)’ Heb.11:3
I realise that I may be simplifying this, however comology is one area where science and religion are not that far apart.
With us that ‘First Cause’ is God, with the atheist, it must be something else.
I have been a Christian for 40 years, and most of that time studied theology at the highest level, however I will admit, that I still know so little about Him. He is still a ‘Mystery’, but nothing can compare with the experience of finding more about Him. What a journey!
Colin